The Relations VIII
Discussion of Chapter 8
Discussion Topics / Questions
1). What "is at the root of supernatural things… which is in our power here to acquire
by the help of our Lord"?
[Relations: Ch8: #2 ]
2). How does St. Teresa describe
the prayer state which she describes
as " the presence of God" ?
[Relations: Ch8: #23 ]
3). How did St. Teresa describe
the first prayer state
of which she recognized
was of a supernatural nature?
[Relations: Ch8: #3 ]
4). With God's grace, what prayer state
can further develop
out of Interior Recollection?
[Relations: Ch8: #4]
5). Beyond a prayer state
of quiet and peace
what prayer state can further develop
with God's grace?
[Relations: Ch8: #5]
6). What did St. Teresa say about
the prayer state in which
"the will alone is in union".
[Relations: Ch8: #6 ]
7). How did St. Teresa describe
the prayer state in which
all the faculties are in union with God?
[Relations: Ch8: #7]
8). What is the difference between
Union and rapture or trance?
[Relations: Ch8: #8, 9 ]
9). What is the difference between
Trance and Transport?
[Relations: Ch8: #10 ]
10). What is the Flight of the Spirit?
[Relations: Ch8: #11, 12 ]
11). How did St. teresa describe
the supernatural prayer state
which she referred to as
"Impetus" or "Impestuosities" ?
[Relations: Ch8: #13, 14, 15, 18 ]
12). How does St. Teresa describe
the prayer state which she describes
as a "wounding" or "wound of love" ?
[Relations: Ch8: #16, 17, 18 ]
13). What did St. Teresa say regarding
her visions of the Holy Trinity ?
[Relations: Ch8: #20, 21 ]
14). What did St. Teresa say
regarding asking God
for revelations, consolation or gifts?
[Relations: Ch8: #20, 22 ]
15). Why did St. Teresa believe that God
granted her these graces and gifts?
[Relations: Ch8: #22 ]
16). What did St. Teresa say regarding:
- her surety that these experiences
were from God?
- her surety that these experiences
were real
(whether she imagined
these spiritual experiences) ?
[Relations: Ch8: #1, 11, 12, 14, 19,20 ]
17). Why did St. Teresa say
that these prayer experience
were difficult to describe?
[Relations: Ch8: #1,11,13,16, 17, 19 ]
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1). What "is at the root
of supernatural things...
which is in our power here to acquire
by the help of our Lord"?
[Relations: Ch8: #2 ]
Here, St. Teresa seems to emphasizing
the value of affective meditation
- that prayer which assists one
in lifting up the heart and mind to God
with devotion, tears, and tenderness.
Through this prayer effort
that one can do with God's help,
one can dispose oneself
to advancement in prayer.
Here, St. Teresa seems to emphasizing
the value of affective meditation
- that prayer which assists one
in lifting up the heart and mind to God
with devotion, tears, and tenderness.
Through this prayer effort
that one can do with God's help,
one can dispose oneself
to advancement in prayer.
St. Teresa said
"that which relates to
devotion, tenderness,
tears, and meditations,
which is in our power here to acquire
by the help of our Lord…
is at the root
of supernatural things"
[Relations: Ch8: #2 ]
__________________________
2). How does St. Teresa describe
the prayer state which she describes
as " the presence of God" ?
[Relations: Ch8: #23 ]
St. Teresa stated:
"I remember another way of prayer
which I had
before the one I mentioned first,
-- namely, a presence of God,
which is not a vision at all.
It seems that any one,
if he recommends himself
to His Majesty,
even if he only prays vocally,
finds Him;
every one, at all times,
can do this,
if we except seasons of aridity.
[Relations: Ch8: #23 ]
_____________________
3). How did St. Teresa describe
the first prayer state of which
of which she recognized
was of a supernatural nature?
[Relations: Ch8: #3 ]
Please Note:
In Chapter 8: Paragraph #23, St. Teresa remembers another prayer state
and inserts it seemingly
before Interior Recollection
"I remember another way of prayer
which I had
before the one I mentioned first,
-- namely, a presence of God"
[Relations: Ch8: #23 ]
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St. Teresa stated:
"The first prayer
of which I was conscious,
(that was) supernatural...
is a certain interior recollection [698]
of which the soul is sensible..."
[Relations: Ch8: #3 ]
St. Teresa described the earliest prayer state
which she experienced
which she experienced
that she recognized as a supernatural state:
Interior Recollection
~ Supernatural
- Not within human capability
- It is a gift and grace from God
which one can not earn or merit.
-- "which no skill or effort of ours,
can attain to...
however much we labour"
- But one can dispose oneself to graces
through prayer and works.
-- "though we should
prepare ourselves for it,
and that preparation must be
of great service"
[Relations: Ch8: #3 ]
~ Description
- The soul seems to focus on God,
not on the senses
" the soul,
-- withdrawing into itself,
-- seeks to go away from the tumult
of its outward senses...
-- it drags them away with itself;
-- for it closes the eyes on purpose
that it may
neither see,
nor hear,
nor understand anything...
-- the soul is...intent...to be able
to converse with God alone".
- The faculties are quieted and
do not distract the soul's focus from God.
"In this prayer there is
-- no suspension
of the faculties and powers
of the soul;
-- it retains the full use of them;
-- but the use of them is retained that
they may be occupied with God".
[Relations: Ch8: #3 ]
[698] Inner Fortress, iv. ch. iii.
Interior Castle: Mansion 4: Ch3 This is a kind of recollection
which, I believe, is supernatural.
Without any labour of one’s own,
the temple of which I spoke,
is reared for the soul in which to pray:
-- the senses and exterior surroundings
appear to lose their hold,
-- while the spirit gradually regains
its lost sovereignty.
Some say the soul enters into itself;
others, that it rises above itself.
This recollection helps us greatly
when God bestows it upon us.
But do not fancy you can gain it
- by thinking of God
dwelling within you,
or
- by imagining Him as present
in your soul:
this is a good practice and
an excellent kind of meditation,
for it is founded on the fact
that God resides within us;
it is not, however,
the prayer of recollection,
for by the divine assistance,
every one can practise it,
but what I mean is quite a different thing.
Sometimes, before they have begun
to think of God,
the powers of the soul find themselves
within the castle...
the soul is keenly conscious
of a delicious sense of recollection
experienced by those
who enjoy this favour,
that the soul is then
like a tortoise or sea-urchin,
which retreats into itself. 108
... but these creatures can withdraw
into themselves at will,
while here it is not in our power
to retire into ourselves,
unless God gives us the grace.
In my opinion, His Majesty
only bestows this favour on those
who have renounced the world,
in desire at least,
if their state of life does not permit
their doing so in fact.
He thus specially calls them
to devote themselves
to spiritual things;
if they allow Him...freely
He will bestow still greater graces
on those
whom He thus begins calling
to a higher life.
Those who enjoy this recollection
should thank God fervently:
it is of the highest importance for them
to realize
the value of this favour,
gratitude for which
would prepare them
to receive still more signal graces.
[Interior Castle:Mansion 4: Ch3]
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_____________________________
4). With God's grace, what prayer state
can further develop
out of Interior Recollection?
[Relations: Ch8: #4]
St. Teresa stated that:
"Out of this recollection grow a
- certain quietude and
- inward peace most full of comfort;
for the soul is in such a state
that it does not seem to it
that it wants anything;
for even speaking wearies it,
-- I mean by this,
vocal prayer and meditation;
- it would do nothing but love.
This lasts some time,
and even a long time.
[Relations: Ch8: #4]
_______________________
5). Beyond a prayer state
of quiet and peace
what prayer state can further develop
with God's grace?
[Relations: Ch8: #5]
St. Teresa stated:
"Out of this prayer comes usually
what is called
a sleep of the faculties;
but they are
not so absorbed
nor so suspended
as that it can be called a trance;
nor is it altogether union.
[Relations: Ch8: #5]
_______________________
6). What did St. Teresa say about
the prayer state in which
"the will alone is in union".
[Relations: Ch8: #6 ]
St. Teresa stated:
"Sometimes, and even often,
the soul is aware
that the will alone is in union;
and this it sees very clearly,
--that is, it seems so to it.
The will is wholly intent upon God, and
the soul sees
that it has no power
to rest on,
or do, anything else;
and at the same time
the two other faculties
are at liberty
to attend to other matters
of the service of God,
--in a word, [699]
Martha and Mary are together."
[Relations: Ch8: #6]
Foot Note: [699]
[609] Life, ch. xvii. § 5 The Life: Chapter 17; # 5, 6 5. This state of prayer seems to me
- to be a most distinct union
of the whole soul with God...
It happens at times, and...very often, that,
the will being in union,
the soul
- should be aware of it, and
- see that the will is a captive and in joy,
- that the will alone is abiding
in great peace,--
while, on the other hand,
- the understanding and the memory
are so free,
that they can
be employed in affairs and
be occupied in works of charity...
[ Life: Ch. 17: #5 ]
6. It differs from the prayer of quiet...
though it does seem
as if it were all one with it.
~ In that prayer (of quiet),
the soul,
- which would willingly
neither stir nor move,
- is delighting in the holy repose
of Mary;
~ but in this (3rd state of) prayer
- it can be like Martha also.
Accordingly, the soul is, as it were,
- living the
-- active and
-- contemplative
life at once, and
- is able to apply itself to
-- works of charity and the
-- affairs of its state, and to
-- spiritual reading.
Still, those who arrive at this state,
- are not wholly masters of themselves
- and are well aware
that the better part of the soul
is elsewhere.
It is as if we were speaking
to one person,
and another speaking to us
at the same time,
while we ourselves are not perfectly
attentive either
to the one or the other.
...
So the soul
- has no satisfaction in the world, and
- seeks no pleasure in it then;
because it has in itself
that which gives it a
-- greater satisfaction,
-- greater joys in God,
-- longings for the satisfaction
of its longing to have a deeper joy
in being with Him--
this is what the soul seeks.
[ Life: Ch. 17: #6 ]
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The reference to Mary and Martha
is derived from the Gospel account of
Luke 10 in which:
- Mary,
sat at the foot of Jesus,
listening to His words
- while her sister, Martha,
busied herself with
meal preparation and hospitality services
for Jesus and the other guests.
Luke 10: 38 - 42
38 Now it came to pass as they went,
that he entered into a certain town:
and a certain woman named Martha,
received him into her house.
39 And she had a sister called Mary,
who sitting also at the Lord's feet,
heard his word.
40 But Martha was busy about much serving.
Who stood and said:
Lord, hast thou no care
that my sister hath left me alone to serve?
Speak to her therefore, that she help me.
41 And the Lord answering, said to her:
Martha, Martha, thou
art careful, and
art troubled about many things:
42 But one thing is necessary.
Mary hath chosen the best part,
which shall not be taken away from her.
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Way of Perfection: Chapter 31
"It is a great favor
which the Lord grants to these souls,
for it unites
the active life
with
the contemplative
At such times they serve the Lord
in both these ways at once;
- the will,
while in contemplation,
is working without knowing how it does so;
- the other two faculties
are serving Him as Martha did
Thus Martha and Mary work together"
[Way of Perfection: Chapter 31]
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7). How did St. Teresa describe
the prayer state in which
all the faculties are in union with God?
[Relations: Ch8: #7]
St. Teresa said that
"When all the faculties of the soul
are in union...
- they can then do nothing whatever,
because the understanding is surprised,
as it were.
- The will loves
more than
the understanding knows;
but the understanding
does not know
that the will loves,
nor what it is doing,
so as to be able in any way
to speak of it.
As to the memory,
the soul, I think, has none then,
nor any power of thinking,
Nor are the senses awake,
but rather as lost,
so that the soul
may be the more occupied
with the object of its fruition...
They are lost but for a brief interval;
it passes quickly away.
By the wealth of humility,
and other virtues and desires,
left in the soul after this
may be learnt
how great the blessing is
that flows from this grace...
...though the soul applies itself
to the understanding of it,
it can
neither understand
nor explain it.
This, if it be real, is, in my opinion,
the greatest grace
wrought by our Lord
on this spiritual road,
-- at least, it is one of the greatest.
[Relations: Ch8: #7]
________________________
8). What is the difference between
Union and rapture or trance?
[Relations: Ch8: #8, 9 ]
~ Raptures and Trance:
- Raptures and trance...
are all one,
~ The difference between
Union and Trance (Rapture)
St. Teresa seemed to say that the
qualities of these states were
similar except in degree and duration.
The qualities experienced
in Trance/Rapture were
- stronger and
- of longer duration.
"...in all these kinds of prayer
there is more or less of this"
◊ Union
- "the breathing
gradually diminishes,
so that it becomes impossible
to speak or
to open the eyes"
◊ Trance (Rapture)
- lasts longer and
- is more visible outwardly,
because the breathing
gradually diminishes,
so that it becomes impossible
to speak or
to open the eyes;
- "more violence in a trance
for the natural warmth vanishes,
I know not how,
when the rapture (trance) is deep;
When it is deep...
the hands
become cold, and
sometimes stiff and straight
as pieces of wood;
as to the body,
if the rapture (trance) comes on
when it is standing or kneeling,
it remains so; [701]
Foot Note [701]
[701] Life, ch. xx. § 23
The Life: Chapter 20: #23
23...when the rapture was over,
my body seemed frequently to be buoyant,
as if all weight had departed from it...
But during the rapture itself
- the body is very often
as if it were dead, perfectly powerless.
- It continues in the position it was in
when the rapture came upon it--
-- if sitting, sitting;
-- if the hands were open,
or if they were shut,
they will remain open or shut.
- For though the senses fail but rarely,
...to lose them wholly...seldom,
...and then only for a short time.
But in general they are in disorder;
and though they have no power...
to deal with outward things,
there remains the power
of hearing and seeing;
but it is as if the things heard and seen
were at a great distance, far away.
[ Life: Ch. 20: #23]
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and the soul is so full of the joy
of that which our Lord
is setting before it,
that it seems to
forget to animate the body, and
abandons it.
If the rapture (trance) lasts,
the nerves are made to feel it".
[Relations: Ch8: #8]
"...our Lord will have
the soul know
more of that,
the fruition of which it has,
in a trance
than in union,
in a rapture (trance)
the soul receives most commonly
certain revelations of His Majesty,
and the effects...on the soul
are great,
- a forgetfulness of self,
through the longing it has
that God our Lord,
who is so high,
may be known and praised.
if the rapture (trance) be from God,
the soul cannot fail to obtain
a deep conviction
of its own helplessness, and
of its wretchedness
and ingratitude,
in that it has not served Him
Who,
of His own goodness only,
bestows upon it graces so great;
for the feeling and the sweetness
are so high above all things
that may be compared therewith
that, if the recollection of them
did not pass away,
all the satisfactions of earth
would be always loathsome to it
...hence comes the contempt
for all the things of the world.
[Relations: Ch8: # 9 ]
______________________
9). What is the difference between
Trance and Transport?
[Relations: Ch8: #10 ]
St. Teresa said that
"The difference between
trance and transport is this:
~ Trance
"in a trance the soul
- gradually dies to outward things,
- losing the senses and
- living unto God.
~ Transport
"A transport comes on
by one sole act of His Majesty,
wrought in the innermost part
of the soul
with such swiftness
that it is as if the higher part thereof
were carried away,
and the soul leaving the body.
Accordingly it requires courage at first
to throw itself
into the arms of our Lord,
that He may take it
whithersoever He will;
for, until His Majesty establishes it
in peace there
whither He is pleased to take it
-- by take it
I mean the admitting of it
to the knowledge of deep things--
it certainly requires in the beginning
to be firmly resolved
to die for Him,
because the poor soul does not know
what this means
-- that is, at first.
The virtues, as it seems to me,
remain stronger after this,
for there is a growth in detachment,
and the power of God,
who is so mighty,
is the more known,
so that the soul loves and fears Him.
For so it is,
He carries away the soul,
no longer in our power,
as the true Lord thereof,
which is filled with
a deep sorrow
for having offended Him, and
astonishment
that it ever dared
to offend a Majesty so great,
with an exceedingly earnest desire
that none may
henceforth offend Him, and
that all may praise Him.
This, I think, must be the source
of those very fervent desires
for the salvation of souls, and
for some share therein, and
for the due praising of God.
[Relations: Ch8: #10 ]
______________________
10). What is the Flight of the Spirit?
[Relations: Ch8: #11, 12 ]
St. Teresa said:
The flight of the spirit...
is a rising upwards
from the very depths of the soul.
[703]
It seems to me
that soul and spirit
are one and the same thing;
but only as a fire,
if it is great and ready for burning;
so, like fire burning rapidly,
the soul, in that preparation of itself
which is the work of God,
sends up a flame,
-- the flame ascends on high,
but the fire thereof
is the same as that below,
nor does the flame cease to be fire
because it ascends:
"...in the soul,
something so subtile and so swift,
seems to issue from it,
that ascends to the higher part,
and goes thither
whither our Lord wills.
...it seems a flight...
[Relations: Ch8: #11 ]
This little bird of the spirit
seems to have escaped
out of this wretchedness of the flesh,
out of the prison of this body,
and now, disentangled therefrom,
is able to be the more intent
on that which our Lord is giving it.
The flight of the spirit
is something so fine,
of such inestimable worth,
as the soul perceives it,
that all delusion therein
seems impossible,
or anything of the kind,
when it occurs.
It was afterwards
that fear arose,
because she who received this grace
was so wicked;
for she saw
what good reasons she had
to be afraid of everything,
though in her innermost soul
there remained
an assurance and
a confidence
wherein she was able to live,
but not enough
to make her cease
from the anxiety
she was in
not to be deceived.
[Relations: Ch8: #12 ]
Foot Note [703]
See Life, chs. xx. and xxi.
Life: Ch. 20:
Rapture:
- "this utter transformation
of the soul in God"
[ Life: Ch. 20: #24 ]
"all these are only different names
for that one and the same thing":
-- "transport,
-- flight of the spirit,
-- trance,
-- ecstasy"
"...are all one"
[ Life: Ch. 20: #1 ]
- more excellent than union,
- the fruits of it are much greater, and
- its other operations more manifold;
- have ends of a much higher kind,
- they produce effects
both within and without.
[ Life: Ch. 20: #1 ]
- "this is the flight of the spirit,
rising upwards
above all created things,
and chiefly above itself"
[ Life: Ch. 20: #32 ]
- you see and feel it...
rising upwards, and
carrying you away...
[ Life: Ch. 20: #3 ]
- our Lord draws up the soul...
and carries it away out of itself
...takes the soul with Him, and
begins to show it
the treasures of the kingdom
which He has prepared for it.
[ Life: Ch. 20: #2 ]
- you feel and see yourself
carried away,
you know not whither.
- my soul was carried away,
and almost always my head with it
I had no power over it,--
and now and then
the whole body as well,
so that it was lifted up
from the ground.
[ Life: Ch. 20: #4 ]
- ... the spirit draws it
upwards after itself…
[ Life: Ch. 20: #9 ]
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Foot Note [703]
See Life, chs. xx. and xxi.
Life: Chapter 21:
"When our Lord brings a soul on to this state,
He communicates to it
of His greatest secrets by degrees.
True revelations, the great gifts, and visions
come by ecstasies,
all tending
to make the soul humble and strong,
to make it
despise the things of this world, and
have a clearer knowledge
of the greatness of the reward
which our Lord has prepared
for those who serve Him".
[ Life: Ch. 21: #15 ]
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____________________
11). How did St. teresa describe the
supernatural prayer state which she
referred to as
"Impetus" or "Impestuosities" ?
[Relations: Ch8: #13, 14, 15, 18 ]
St. Teresa said:
By impetus,
I mean that desire
which at times
rushes into the soul,
without being preceded by prayer,
and this is most frequently the case;
it is a sudden remembering
- that the soul is away from God, or
- of a word it has heard
to that effect.
This remembering is occasionally
so strong and vehement
that the soul in a moment
becomes as if the reason were gone,
just like a person
who suddenly
- hears most painful tidings
of which he knew not before,
- or is surprised;
such a one
- seems deprived of the power
of collecting his thoughts
for his own comfort, and
- is as one lost.
So is it in this state,
except that the suffering
arises from this,
that there abides in the soul
a conviction that it would be
well worth dying in it.
It seems
- that whatever the soul then perceives
does but increase its suffering, and
- that our Lord will have its whole being
find no comfort in anything,
nor remember that it is His will
that it should live:
the soul seems to itself to be
in great and indescribable loneliness,
and abandoned of all,
because the world, and all that is in it,
gives it pain; and
because it finds no companionship
in any created thing,
the soul seeks its Creator alone,
and this it sees to be impossible
unless it dies;
and as it must not kill itself,
it is dying to die,
and there is really a risk of death,
and it sees itself hanging
between heaven and earth,
not knowing what to do with itself.
And from time to time
God gives it
a certain knowledge of Himself,
that it may see what it loses,
in a way so strange
that no explanation of it is possible;
and there is no pain in the world... -
that is equal or like unto this,
for if it lasts but half an hour
the whole body is out of joint, and
the bones so racked,
that I am not able
to write with my hands:
the pains I endure
are most grievous. [704]
[Relations: Ch8: #13 ]
But nothing of all this
is felt
till the impetus shall have passed away.
He to whom it comes
has enough to do in enduring
that which is going on within him,
nor do I believe that he would feel
if he were grievously tortured:
he
is in possession of all his senses,
can speak, and even observe;
walk about he cannot,
-- the great blow of that love
throws him down to the ground.
If we were to die to have this,
it would be of no use,
for it cannot be
except when God sends it.
It leaves great effects and blessings
in the soul...
The soul clearly understands
that it is a great grace from our Lord;
were it to occur more frequently,
life would not last long.
[Relations: Ch8: #14 ]
The ordinary impetus is,
that this desire of serving God
comes on with a certain tenderness,
accompanied with tears,
out of a longing to depart
from this land of exile;
but as the soul retains its freedom,
wherein it reflects
that its living on
is according to our Lord's will,
it takes comfort in that thought, and
offers its life to Him,
beseeching Him
that it may last only
for His glory.
This done, it bears all.
[Relations: Ch8: #15 ]
that these great impetuosities
scarcely ever leave me,
except through
a trance or great sweetness
in our Lord,
whereby He
comforts the soul, and
gives it courage to live on
for His sake.
[Relations: Ch8: #18]
Foot Note [704]
[704] Life, ch. xx. § 16;
Inner Fortress, vi. c. xi.
Life: Chapter 20: Paragraph # 16
"Generally, when I am not particularly occupied,
I fall into these agonies of death, and
I tremble when I feel them coming on,
because they are not unto death.
But when I am in them,
I then wish to spend therein
all the rest of my life,
though the pain be so very great,
that I can scarcely endure it.
Sometimes...
- my bones are racked, and
- my hands become so rigid,
that I cannot always join them.
Even on the following day
I have a pain
in my wrists, and
over my whole body,
as if my bones were out of joint. [16]
...the pain seems to me
sharp enough
to cause death;
only, I do not deserve it".
[ Life: Ch. 20: #16 ]
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[16] Daniel 10:16
16 And behold as it were
the likeness of a son of man touched my lips:
then I opened my mouth and spoke,
and said to him that stood before me:
O my lord, at the sight of you
my joints are loosed, and
no strength has remained in me.
17 And how can the servant of my lord
speak with my lord?
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Foot Note [704]
[704] Life, ch. xx. § 16;
Inner Fortress, vi. c. xi.
Inner Fortress, vi. c. xi.
Interior Castle: Mansion 6; Chapter 11
"Will all these graces
bestowed by the Spouse upon the soul
suffice to content this little dove or butterfly...
No indeed: her state is far worse than ever;
although she has been receiving these favours
for many years past,
she still sighs and weeps
because each grace augments her pain.
She sees herself
still far away from God,
yet with her increased knowledge
of His attributes,
her longing and her love for Him
grow ever stronger
as she learns more fully
how this great God and Sovereign
deserves to be loved.
As, year by year her yearning after Him
gradually becomes keener,
she experiences the bitter suffering
I am about to describe.
I speak of ‘years’ because
...though I know well
that with God
time has no limits
and in a single moment
He can raise a soul
to the most sublime state
I have described.
His Majesty has the power to do
all He wishes
and He wishes to do much for us.
These longings, tears, sighs,
and violent and impetuous desires
and strong feelings,
which seem to proceed
from our vehement love,
are yet as nothing compared with
what I am about to describe and
seem but a smouldering fire,
the heat of which, though painful,
is yet tolerable.
[Interior castle: Mansion 6: Ch 11: #1]
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______________________
12). How does St. Teresa describe
the prayer state which she describes
as a "wounding" or "wound of love" ?
[Relations: Ch8: #16, 17, 18 ]
St. Teresa stated:
Another prayer very common
is a certain kind of wounding; [705]
- seems to the soul
as if an arrow were thrust
through the heart, or
through itself.
Thus it causes great suffering,
which makes the soul complain;
but the suffering is so sweet,
that it wishes it never would end.
The suffering is
not one of sense,
neither is the wound physical;
- it is in the interior of the soul,
without any appearance
of bodily pain;
but as I cannot explain it...
how far the pain can go;
for the pains of the spirit
are very different
from those of earth.
I gather, therefore, from this,
that the souls in hell and purgatory
suffer more than we can imagine,
by considering these pains
of the body.
[Relations: Ch8: #16 ]
At other times,
this wound of love seems to issue
- from the inmost depth of the soul;
- and when our Lord does not inflict it,
-- there is no help for it,
-- whatever we may do to obtain it;
-- nor can it be avoided
when it is His pleasure to inflict it.
- great are the effects of it;
The effects of it
are those longings after God,
so quick and so fine
that they cannot be described
and when the soul sees itself
hindered and kept back
from entering, as it desires,
on the fruition of God,
it conceives a great loathing
for the body,
on which it looks as a thick wall
which hinders it from that fruition
which it then seems
to have entered upon within itself,
and unhindered by the body.
It then comprehends the great evil
that has befallen us
through the sin of Adam
in robbing us of this liberty.
[Relations: Ch8: #17 ]
This prayer
I had before
the raptures and
the great impetuosities
I have been speaking of.
[Relations: Ch8: #18 ]
Foot Note [705]
[705] See Life, ch. xxix. § 17.
Life: Chapter 29; #17
"I saw in his hand
a long spear of gold,
and at the iron's point there
seemed to be a little fire.
He appeared to me
to be thrusting it
at times into my heart, and
to pierce my very entrails;
when he drew it out,
he seemed
to draw them out also, and
to leave me all on fire
with a great love of God.
The pain was so great,
that it made me moan; and
yet so surpassing was the sweetness
of this excessive pain,
that I could not wish to be rid of it.
The soul is satisfied now
with nothing less than God.
The pain is not bodily, but spiritual;
though the body has its share in it,
even a large one.
It is a caressing of love so sweet
which now takes place
between the soul and God..."
[Life: Ch 29: #17]
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___________________________
13). What did St. Teresa say regarding
her visions Holy Trinity ?
[Relations: Ch8: #20, 21 ]
Regarding her visions Holy Trinity,
St. Teresa wrote:
~ Regarding How the vision
is apprehended or perceived:
- "I saw nothing, and
- heard nothing"
- there is a strange certainty about it,
- though the eyes of the soul
see nothing;
[Relations: Ch8: #20 ]
~ Regarding the certainty of the vision:
" there is a strange certainty about it..."
"How it is,
I know not;
but I do know very well
that it is not an imagination,
because I cannot reproduce the vision
when it is over,
even if I were to perish in the effort;
but I have tried to do so...
for, as I have been in this state
for so many years,
I have been able to observe,
so that I can say so
with this confidence".
[Relations: Ch8: #20 ]
~ Regarding the content of the vision
- Distinctness of each Person
of the Trinity
"I see clearly
that the Persons are distinct...
- Consciousness of the Presence
"when the presence is withdrawn,
that withdrawal is felt".
- The truth is that, as to the Person
who always speaks,
I can certainly say which of Them
He seems to me to be;
of the others I cannot say so much.
One of Them
I know well has never spoken.
I never knew why,
nor do I busy myself
in asking more of God
than He is pleased to give,
because in that case, I believe,
I should be deluded by Satan, at once;
nor will I ask now,
because of the fear I am in.
[Relations: Ch8: #20 ]
I think
the First spoke to me at times;
but as I do not remember
that very well now,
nor what it was that He spoke,
I will not venture to say so.
It is all written...
and more at large than it is here;
I know not
whether in the same words or not.
Though the Persons
are distinct in a strange way,
the soul knows One only God.
I do not remember
that our Lord ever seemed
to speak to me
but in His Human Nature;
I can assure you
that this is no imagination.
[Relations: Ch8: #21 ]
______________________
14). What did St. Teresa say
regarding asking God
for revelations, consolation or gifts?
[Relations: Ch8: #20, 22 ]
St. Teresa stated
that she never asked God
for revelations, consolation or gifts.
that she never asked God
for revelations, consolation or gifts.
She thought that to do so
- was not practicing
humility, detachment,
and respect/ fear of the Lord
- was risking being deluded by
herself or the devil
"nor do I busy myself
in asking more of God
than He is pleased to give,
because in that case, I believe,
I should be deluded by Satan, at once;
nor will I ask now,
because of the fear I am in.
[Relations: Ch8: #20 ]
"I cannot but listen
to what our Lord tells me;
I hear it because I cannot help myself;
but, as for asking His Majesty
to reveal anything to me,
that is what I have never done.
In that case,
I should immediately think
- I was imagining things, and
- that I must be in a delusion
of Satan.
God be praised,
I have never been curious
about things,
and I do not care
to know more than I do.
What I have learnt,
without seeking to learn,
as I have just said,
has been a great trouble to me...
[Relations: Ch8: #22 ]
__________________________
15). Why did St. Teresa believe that God
granted her these graces and gifts?
[Relations: Ch8: #22 ]
St. Teresa said:
"it has been the means...I believe
which our Lord made use of
to save me,
seeing that I was so wicked;
Good people do not need so much
to make them serve His Majesty.
[Relations: Ch8: #22 ]
_________________________
16). What did St. Teresa say regarding:
- her surety that these experiences
were from God?
- her surety that these experiences
were real
(whether she imagined
these spiritual experiences) ?
[Relations: Ch8: #1, 11, 12, 14, 19,20 ]
St. Teresa said:
◊ Regarding the surety
that her experience came from God:
"The soul clearly understands that
it is a great grace from our Lord"
[Relations: Ch8: # 14 ]
"The flight of the spirit
is something so fine,
of such inestimable worth,
as the soul perceives it,
that all delusion therein
seems impossible,
or anything of the kind,
when it occurs"
Despite having fears afterwards
of being deceived
because she felt unworthy of such gifts:
"in her innermost soul
there remained
an assurance and
a confidence
wherein she was able to live,
but not enough
to make her cease
from the anxiety
she was in
not to be deceived"
[Relations: Ch8: #12 ]
◊ Regarding the surety
that her experience was real and
not derived from the imagination,
St. Teresa said:
"All this that I speak of
cannot be the effect
of the imagination;
and I have some reasons
for saying this,
but it would be wearisome
to enter on them:
[Relations: Ch8: #19 ]
"How it is,
I know not;
but I do know very well
that it is not an imagination,
because I cannot reproduce
the vision
when it is over,
even if I were to perish
in the effort;
but I have tried to do so.
So is it with all
that I have spoken of here,
so far as I can see;
[Relations: Ch8: #20 ]
"...I know that it cannot be mistaken,
for it is most evident
when it occurs,
and that it cannot be hindered.
[Relations: Ch8: # 11 ]
"but what I can assure you of
is this,
that I will speak of nothing
I have not had experience of
at times, and, indeed, often.
[Relations: Ch8: # 1 ]
________________________
17). Why did St. Teresa say
that these prayer experience
were difficult to describe?
that these prayer experience
were difficult to describe?
[Relations: Ch8: #1,11,13,16, 17, 19 ]
St. Teresa stated
that it was difficult to communicate
her supernatural prayer experiences because:
• of her own finite capability to
understand what was happening
"These interior things of the spirit
are so difficult
... still more, in such a way as
- to be understood...
for it may well be
that I do not understand
the matter;
[Relations: Ch8: # 1 ]
"The effects thereof,
and how it profits the soul,
pass all comprehension,
as it seems to me.
[Relations: Ch8: #19 ]
• of the finite capability of others to
understand what she is describing
"It is, therefore,
neither to be written of
nor spoken of,
because it is impossible
for any one to understand it
who has not had experience of it,
[Relations: Ch8: # 16 ]
• of the difficulty to express them in words
"These interior things of the spirit
are so difficult to describe..."
[Relations: Ch8: # 1 ]
"and I know of nothing else
wherewith to compare it...
...I cannot go further
with the explanation..."
[Relations: Ch8: # 11 ]
" that no explanation of it is possible"
[Relations: Ch8: # 13 ]
"but as I cannot explain it
except by comparing it
with other .....,
I make use
of these clumsy expressions...
I cannot, however, explain it
in any other way.
[Relations: Ch8: # 16 ]
• of their short duration
"the more so,
as they pass quickly away"
[Relations: Ch8: # 1 ]
"The effects of it...
so quick and so fine
that they cannot be described
[Relations: Ch8: # 17 ]
• of her finite memory
But she did rely and refer others
to her previous notes and writings
for more details and substantiation
of her descriptions.
"in that writing
where these and other ways of prayer
are explained at length,
and such is my memory
that I forget things at once".
[Relations: Ch8: # 11 ]
_____________________
~ End of Discussion ~
of Chapter 8
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